Military vs Civilian Targets

It is interesting to see Israeli media on the web – which reaches a far wider audience than Israeli TV – reporting the deadly rocket strike on a military base in Kfar Giladi and the subsequent explosion that claimed the lives of 11 Israeli soldiers as an attack on a “crowd of people”, who allegedly did not heed the sirens warning of an incoming rocket barrage. We saw scenes of the aftermath of the explosion from Israeli TV stations as well as Al-Jazeera, and the dead and injured were clearly soldiers. Numerous sources, including the AP, have confirmed that at least 9 of the killed were reservists. Interesting. I wonder if some Israeli bloggers who have been keenly following the massacres in Lebanon for the sake of “exposing” our photo-ops will take note of this.

In response, the IAF bombed … residential buildings in the southern suburbs of Beirut. Well, at least they didn’t bomb the … destroyed runways of Beirut International Airport!


62 responses to “Military vs Civilian Targets

  1. This morning all American networks said “11 Isrealis” not eleven soldiers. Amazing. So, the non critical non reading viewer goes away thinking that the murderous Arabs are killing civilians. Day after day the so called balanced western media engages in such propaganda.

  2. Well, I suppose that is correct.

    That said, can you tell me how many times HIzbollah has warned civilains to leave an area they were targeting?

  3. this is unbelievble. i spent the entire day thinking they were civillians up until now. every single israely websites claims it was a grathering of “people” near a cemetary (this is supposed to be the most “leftis” paper in israel those instruction must of come from the govermnment.
    in israel itself however, i’m not sure the responses would be any different if they knew they were soldiers. they might be even worse (some talkbacks in calls to “naplam” them. good god what a zoo).

  4. I am really curious, why oh why such a dissproportionate number of civilians killed by Hizbolah rockets were Arab?
    Are they not allowed to go down in the shelters? Someone explain. I am looking for the numbers but it seems that most of the civilians were Arab.

  5. Stellaa – because the great majority of Arab towns in Israel have neither sirens nor shelters.

  6. Huh… I’ll have to respectfully disagree Stellaa. I get my news for the NYTimes and they reported that the 11 dead were soldiers. So does AP for that matter. It says that 11 people were killed, but the photo displayed has a caption that clearly states the dead are reservists.

    Granted the media is not as impartial as we like, but they aren’t quite that bad.

  7. can you tell me how many times HIzbollah has warned civilains to leave an area they were targeting?
    Why do you think I am defending HezbAllah’s targeting of civilians? Is that how far your logic can go? That if I criticize Israeli massacre of civilians I must be siding with HezbAllah’s targeting of civilians? For the record neither is right/moral/justifiable! At any rate, what does Israel’s warning mean when those who DO receive the leaflets are unable to flee because the roads and bridges around them have been bombed from day 1, and if they are not, and they decide to flee, their cars are getting bombed by Israeli aircraft hovering above? Of what use is a warning if I will get bombed the minute I decide to heed it?? It’s always easy to talk, and talk is cheap when you’re not even in Lebanon, or actually not even IN THE REGION.

  8. Neutralparty, I think she was referring to TV stations and not newspapers. In USA TV is a much more effective tool than newspapers. At any rate, I suppose some media realized that the factual info could not possibly be hidden for long after all those photos were published…

  9. Try reading the story. Both the AP and NY Times story acknowledge the death of 9-11 reservists (NY times states that the dead are probably soldiers, but does not have official confirmation. AP does). Even Israeli television acknowledges those deaths.;_ylt=AjIhRmMEG44IwtaBEdwo2OoUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

  10. There is a reality: This is an old conflict, and the weapons on both sides have increased over time. If the escallation of weapons continues it is more likely than not that weapons of mass destruction will eventually be used by one side or the other – or by both sides.

    Iran and Syria has been providing newer weapons and communications equipment to Hizbollah. The United States continues to provide Israel with increased weapons. Some state this is proxy war between Iran and the United States. One thing is certain, the current peace plan stands a greater chance of putting Hizbollah in power in Lebanon, as happened with Hamas in Palestine. If this happens, Hizbollah will have control of the weapons the USA is going to provide to Lebanon as a part of the peace process.

    The idea that Hizbollah will disarm, when it was excluded from peace talks – the idea that Iran will discontinue arms sales to Hizbollah when they were not included in peace talks points out a major error in proposed UN plan. Lebanon has stated, they feel being asked to disarm Hizbollah is an invitation to civil war — and Iraq might be a good model to understand their concern. The American and Iraq military combined has not disarmed extremist groups in Iraq, but the current Administration expects Lebanon’s weak military to disarm Hizbollah.

    Civilians are being killed – that is nature of war. Please remember that in Kosovo some ten-thousand civilians were killed. The greater the weapons, the more expaned the conflict the more civilians who will die. Ony a comprehensive peace can bring this nonsense to an end. A comprehensive peace has to include all groups and all nations with a stake in the Middle East.

  11. Stella, what anar neglects to mention is that Arab builders do not build shelters in the apartments they build.

    As for sirens, the Israelis have a secret technology that stops siren sounds as they approach Arab neighborhoods. Right.

    Further, Israelis do not deliberately target civilians. The same cannot be said for Hizbollah. Are civilains killed by the Israelis? Yes. Delibertaely? Hardly.

    Now Anar, I haev been in the region- Syria, Lebanon and the Gulf (as well as Israel). As I have noted many times, Arab hospitality and kindnesses are second to none.

    That said, as the result of Arab world hate and bigotry, taught in schools, reinforced by media and what passes for ‘religion,’ is also second to none.

    The Arab world, acvcording to the UN, has the lowest educational levels in the world, save for sub Saharan Africa. It might be time to change the curriculuum.

  12. Well put Roxie, but the problem also lies in the staunch refusal of Hezbollah to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist. As long as there are groups that talk of pushing Israel into the sea, peace will be hard to come by.

  13. Amazing. CNN is now confirming that 12 people were killed in Kfar Giladi … All 12 being soldiers.

    I do have it on CNNInternational, though. I’m sure when it goes back to CNNUS, they won’t mention the soldier part.

  14. Stella, what anar neglects to mention is that Arab builders do not build shelters in the apartments they build.
    It is not a matter of “Arab builders”. In many Jewish cities, public shelters are available. Such as in Nazareth Illit. Contrary to Nazareth.

  15. What does that have to do with Arab apartments not being built with shelters?

  16. CNN states 1 dead, 65 taken to hospital in most recent missile attack. Does this mean the “peace plan” won’t get off the ground?

  17. I doubt any peace will be forthcoming. Hezbollah states they won’t stop killing until Israel leaves Lebanon. Israel states they won’t stop advancing until Hezbollah stops its attacks. Neither side will compromise since they’ll lose the power game. The UN resolution is useless. Syria and Iran do not support it which means Hezbollah won’t honor the resolution. Lebanon does not approve of it last I read. So on we fight…

  18. the problem also lies in the staunch refusal of Hezbollah to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist.
    Does Israel accept HezbAllah’s right to exist? Whether it considers it a terrorist group or not is irrelevant here. Israel is no less terrorist than HezbAllah. So if HezbAllah is supposed to recognize Israel, Israel is supposed to recognize HezbAllah.

  19. What does that have to do with Arab apartments not being built with shelters?
    The question referred to why there were so many Arab deaths in Israel. I pointed out by saying there were no shelters and no sirens installed. You said Arabs did not build shelters in their buildings. I pointed out that there are PUBLIC shelters in Jewish cities, public meaning, initiated by the city, and funded by the GOVERNMENT. No such thing is available in Arab towns and villages. What does that have to do with Arab apartments???

    And of course, you conveniently ignore the SIRENS.

  20. Comment #18. Interesting viewpoint I suppose. Israel is considered a sovereign nation state and therefore should be treated as such. Hezbollah’s actions vary between political activism to outright terrorism. Asking Israel to recognize an entity which continually fires rockets and attacks a civilian populace is a bit much. Perhaps if the Hezbollah recognized Israel’s right to exist, opted a more political method of achieving its goals, it would also be recognized in turn. You cannot expect Israel to acknowledge a group that wants to destroy it. Someone has to blink first, and since Israel already has sovereign status, it must be Hezbollah. Perhaps I’m naive, but I actually do believe that Israel simply wishes to be left alone. If offered peace treaties, I have no doubt Israel would be willing to compromise (Egypt, Jordan).

  21. Comment #20: Can you please show evidence of Hizbolah terrorist and or rocket attacks in Israel in the last 10 years before July 13th? Also please refer to this link on a more recent history of Hizbolah…

    “Jihad Against Hezbollah
    by Stephen Zunes

    The Bush administration and an overwhelming bipartisan majority of Congress have gone on record defending Israel’s assault on Lebanon’s civilian infrastructure as a means of attacking Hezbollah “terrorists.” Unlike the major Palestinian Islamist groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah forces haven’t killed any Israeli civilians for more than a decade. Indeed, a 2002 Congressional Research Service report noted, in its analysis of Hezbollah, that “no major terrorist attacks have been attributed to it since 1994.” The most recent State Department report on international terrorism also fails to note any acts of terrorism by Hezbollah since that time except for unsubstantiated claims that a Hezbollah member was a participant in a June 1996 attack on the U.S. Air Force dormitory at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia.

    While Hezbollah’s ongoing rocket attacks on civilian targets in Israel are indeed illegitimate and can certainly be considered acts of terrorism, it is important to note that such attacks were launched only after the U.S.-backed Israeli assault on civilian targets in Israel began July 12. Similarly, Hezbollah has pledged to cease such attacks once Israel stops its attacks against Lebanon and withdraws its troops from Lebanese territory occupied since the onset of the latest round of hostilities. (The Hezbollah attack on the Israeli border post that prompted the Israeli assaults, while clearly illegitimate and provocative, can not legally be considered a terrorist attack since the targets were military rather than civilian.)” More of the article in the link.

    I would like you to point out where the article above is wrong either materially or historically. Please do not just provide me with sound bites of the anecdotal type that have become “fact”.

  22. Here you go Stellaa…

    — a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
    — the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
    — the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
    — two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).

    Taken from:

    Of course Hezbollah denies all of them… but then again why wouldn’t they.

    Attacks on IDF since 2001.. AFTER Israel pulled out of Lebanon.

    “Although the Israeli army pulled out of Lebanon in May 2000 and the United Nations Security Council announced that Israel had complied with UN Resolution 425, Hezbollah continues attacking Israel along its border with Lebanon and in the Har Dov (Shebaa Farms) region, which belongs to the Golan Heights.
    Since May 2000 Hezbollah has attacked the IDF at Har Dov 33 times . As a result of those attacks seven Israeli soldiers were killed, three were kidnapped and murdered (their bodies were returned to Israel in the last prisoner exchange) and dozens were wounded. The attacks include launching anti-tank missiles and firing mortar shells and small arms at Israeli outposts, attacks on an Israeli patrols, planting explosive charges in Israeli territory close to the border and kidnapping.

    Hezbollah claimed its actions were legitimate, a claim not accepted by the UN, the international community and even elements in the Lebanese opposition . Recent Hezbollah defiance of UN resolutions can be found in remarks made by N’aim Qassem, Hezbollah’s deputy director, in response to a question asked by a listener during a live program broadcast by Radio Nur , the organization’s radio station.”

    Taken from:

    Some quick research. Now, I don’t support Israel’s response to the kidnapping. I detailed that in a comment in the previous post by Anarchistic. Hezbollah repeatedly violated the UN mandate and its attacks have crossed the Lebanon/Israel border (forget the Sheeba farms argument for now). Hezbollah, if it wants to be truly legitimate, needs to stop this. If you visit the second site, you’ll see a nice picture of an Israeli tank blowing up in 2001. Sorry if that’s not a major attack.

  23. Definition of terrorism: “Acts of murder and destruction deliberately directed against civilians or military in non-military situations.”

    After the Israeli’s withdrew in 2000, the situation ceased to be a military situation. All Hezbollah acts committed, against civilians or military, can be classified as terrorist acts.

    Or the FBI definition: “the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.” Since the Israeli’s withdrew to their country, any unprovoked attack on them is unlawful, and can be considered a casus belli.
    -From FBI and US Defense. Cited by PBS as well.

  24. Israel is considered a sovereign nation state and therefore should be treated as such. Hezbollah’s actions vary between political activism to outright terrorism.
    So terrorism is defined based on whether its perpetrator is a nation-state or not? So let’s suppose the Shi’ites of south Lebanon declared that they are a nation, and somehow (this is hypothetical) they established a nation-state, with HezbAllah as its official army. Does that all of a sudden change HezbAllah’s actions from “terrorism” to “legitimate self-defense”?

    Asking Israel to recognize an entity which continually fires rockets and attacks a civilian populace is a bit much.
    Perhaps, but replace Israel with HezbAllah (or in fact with LEBANON), and you will still have a perfectly valid statement. And if not, then your statement is not valid either.

    You cannot expect Israel to acknowledge a group that wants to destroy it.
    And you cannot expect HezbAllah to acknowledge a group that wants to destroy it.

    This has nothing to do with who “blinks” first, and who has sovereign status. Terrorism is terrorism, and the status of its perpetrator does not change the immorality of targeting civilians and massacring children.

    If offered peace treaties, I have no doubt Israel would be willing to compromise (Egypt, Jordan).
    Actually, wrong. Egypt, and indeed other Arab leaders, including Palestinians, had offered NUMEROUS peace feelers and plans, but all were squarely rejected by Israel. See my comment about Israel’s Iron Wall in the previous entry.

  25. Taken from
    I sure as hell love it when you cite Israeli sources on HezbAllah’s violation of the ceasefire, having in mind that these sources do not even take into account that Israel’s daily violation of Lebanon’s airspace for the past 6 years constitutes a “violation”.

  26. Terrorism: is defined by the US Department of Defense as “the unlawful use of — or threatened use of — force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.”

    I think Hezbollah rocket attacks since 2000 fit that description, especially since Israel had withdrawn to its own borders. Blatant disregard for UN mandate also softens any position Hezbollah might take. What ideological objectives does Israel have? The utter destruction of Islam?? What religious objectives? To convert or kill all who aren’t Jewish?!? What can they possibly attempt to gain politically? We all agree that they’re losing the political and media war. All they want is peace, unfortunately they’re going about it the wrong way.

    Israel’s response CAN be technically categorized as a justified one. The kidnapping can be considered as a casus belli and thus justification for war. In fact, one could argue that any of the previous attacks by Hezbollah can be considered justification for war. Lebanon’s disregard and paralysis towards the UN mandate can also, indirectly, be used to justify this war.

    We can argue the semantics all day, but the point remains that Hezbollah cannot accomplish anything like this. Neither can Israel. Both need to get their heads out of their asses along with the Lebanese, the Syrians and the Iranians as well as the Americans.

    And yes .. my second source was Israeli. Would you like to say that Hezbollah hasn’t carried out such attacks on the IDF in the past 5 years? Or that Israelis are making up lies?

  27. Terrorism: is defined by the US Department of Defense
    I don’t think I want to continue reading any further.

    “the unlawful use of — or threatened use of — force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies
    Funny, that sounds exactly like what Israel is doing, and has claimed to want to do. 🙂

    HezbAllah has only REACTED, not ACTED. Reacted to Israeli violations; and these attacks have focused on military targets. As for the justification for war, perhaps, but then again, this is NOT war. This is the wanton destruction of a country and its civilian infrastructure (illegal under Geneva conventions – as opposed to the taking of prisoners of war, which is LEGAL) and the massacre of civilians.

  28. Post 26: Like I said… it’s all in the perspective. You feel that Hezbollah has reacted. I feel that Israel has reacted (grossly exaggerated response but still a reaction). At this point we’re arguing mere semantics. I’ve said on my blog and on here that Israel’s reaction is far too extreme and that they should have explored other options. Nevertheless, Hezbollah hasn’t helped their or Lebanon’s cause. Lebanon hasn’t helped itself either. I’m afraid I’m not that big of a cynic to rule out talking and diplomacy and all 3 parties need to engage in it and respect the outcomes (which didn’t occur in 2000 or after the UN mandate in 2004).

  29. You feel that Hezbollah has reacted. I feel that Israel has reacted
    It’s not about “feeling”, it’s about facts. And facts clearly point to Israel as the initiator of this aggression. What HezbAllah did was an act of war, sure, and there is a state of war between Lebanon and Israel – despite the ceasefire – and as such the taking of the POW was perfectly legitimate, at least in so far as Israel continues to keep Lebanese in its jails and continues to reject handing over those maps. But what Israel did was not an act of war.

  30. This confuses me. If there is a state of war between Lebanon and Israel and this justifies the taking of POW by Hezbollah, then surely Israel’s reaction is justfied? They’re taking out bridges, roads, infrastructure, and occasionally inflicting civilan damage (around 600 now?). Thats how you fight a war is it not? You cripple a country economically and militarily. You cut off all supply routes into the nation and then wage a ground offensive. If the state of war has existed despite the ceasefire, then both groups’ actions are justified. You cannot say that Hezbollah was justified in the kidnapping due to a state of war and then condemn Israel’s actions. If there is a state of war, then there is a state of war despite circumstances. In a state of war, Israel’s reaction becomes perfectly acceptable. After all, far worse atrocities have been committed in combat before and collateral damage cannot be helped.

    I condemn Israeli tactics simply because I don’t believe a state of war existed between Lebanon and Israel. This is the same reason I categorize Hezbollah as a terrorist entity and not a military one.

    You either accept both groups’ actions due to the state of war between Israel and Lebanon or you condemn both of them due to a lack of war. You cannot choose one and condemn the other.

  31. then surely Israel’s reaction is justfied?
    What “reaction” is justified? The bombing of residential buildings? The massacre of civilians? The decimation of civilian infrastructure? The targeting of civilian cars?

  32. The difference is, while I condemn HezbAllah attacks on civilians, YOU do not do the same. Instead, as we see in the language above, you are seeking to JUSTIFY it. Get this through your thick skull – I am neither celebrating (unlike some Israelis and supporters of Israel who are celebrating each and every strike and each and every Lebanese death – “because you deserve it for not disarming HezbAllah”) Israeli deaths nor am boasting of them! THAT is the difference. But it seems to me some people – and that includes you! – are constantly on the look for excuses you can use to justify the “collateral damage” caused by Israel!

  33. Comment # 22 all your citation are before 10 years. Did you read the article I posted? I don’t think so.
    Attacks were on IDF not civilians. Does that constitute terror? What about the Israeli incursions into Lebanon?

    Even the IRA made peace with England.

  34. I think this is why the EU hesitates to define Hezbolah as a terrorist organization.

    As always I prefer non military solutions and I prefer when nations figure out their own internal politics without outside interferance. It was up to the Lebanese to sort out the issues with Hezbolah, 20 years of Israeli occupation did not disarm them and you wanted it in one year? Has the Israeli tactic/occupation disarmed Hamas? or the American occupation disarm the Iraqi factions? NO.

  35. Actually, I have repeatedly said that I CONDEMN Israel’s actions. If you went and read the second post on my blog, you would see that I call out for peace because of the CIVILIAN casualties. I haven’t tried to justify Israel’s attack on Lebanon, in fact I think it should be stopped. All I want is peace, the demilitarization of Hezbollah, peace treaty with Lebanon, and the return of the Sheeba Farms to Lebanon (quite a lot actually… lol).

    The only time I said Israel was justified was in my comment #29. I said that because you stated that a state of war existed between Israel and Lebanon. And despite our mutual hatred for civilian casualties, they are a product of war. And that was the argument I used to justify Israel’s actions based on the premise of the existing state of war. If you read the second paragraph of post 29, I clearly state that I CONDEMN Israel’s tactics and actions. My argument was that if you justify Hezbollah’s actions by saying Lebanon and Israel are in a state of war, then Israel’s actions are justified for the same reason. Just because I state and accept that fact that civilians die in war does not mean I don’t mourn every civilian that dies.

    So get this through YOUR thick skull: I weep for every civilian, Israeli or Lebanese that dies in this war and do NOT condone the Israeli response. The only difference between us is that I do not condone Lebanon’s negligence and Hezbollah’s fanaticism either.

    And while I condemn both Hezbollah, Lebanon and Israel, you hardly condemn Hezbollah for their actions. You hardly condemn Lebanon for ignoring mandate 1559 and allowing Hezbollah to continue worsening this situation. You rail on the Israeli actions but you say nothing of the attacks Israelis endure and have endured. You say nothing about the fact that Israel withdrew from their buffer zone in 2000 when they were promised peace but received none.

  36. How does the state of war justify Israel’s actions (or “reactions” if you wish to call it that) then?

    Lebanon’s negligence
    Please do elaborate. I would like to see you present a clear, point-by-point action plan as to how the Lebanese government should’ve disarmed HezbAllah. I’m waiting. Until you do come up with such a response, I will let go of this discussion.

  37. A sampling of resolutions that were not abided by Israel.

    I condemn violence but I will not condemn Hizbolah for defending Lebanon in this war. If Hizbolah was demilitarized then Israel would have just had a cake walk into Lebanon, maybe now Israel will think twice about invasions.

    My thick skull has served me well through my life and now at 51 I will not part with it. Weeping is not enough, stopping militarism of Israel is the needed action.

    * Resolution 106: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid”.
    * Resolution 111: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people”.
    * Resolution 127: ” . . . ‘recommends’ Israel suspends it’s ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem”.
    * Resolution 162: ” . . . ‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions”.
    * Resolution 171: ” . . . determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria”.
    * Resolution 228: ” . . . ‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control”.
    * Resolution 237: ” . . . ‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees”.
    * Resolution 248: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan”.
    * Resolution 250: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem”.
    * Resolution 251: ” . . . ‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250″.
    * Resolution 252: ” . . . ‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital”.
    * Resolution 256: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation”.
    * Resolution 259: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation”.
    * Resolution 262: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport”.
    * Resolution 265: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan”.
    * Resolution 267: ” . . . ‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem”.
    *Resolution 270: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 271: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem”.
    * Resolution 279: ” . . . ‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 280: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 285: ” . . . ‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 298: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem”.
    * Resolution 313: ” . . . ‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 316: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 317: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 332: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 337: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty”.
    * Resolution 347: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 425: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 427: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
    * Resolution 444: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces”.
    * Resolution 446: ” . . . ‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious
    obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention”.
    * Resolution 450: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 452: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories”.
    * Resolution 465: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member
    states not to assist Israel’s settlements program”.
    * Resolution 467: ” . . . ‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 468: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of
    two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return”.
    * Resolution 469: ” . . . ‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the
    council’s order not to deport Palestinians”.
    * Resolution 471: ” . . . ‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide
    by the Fourth Geneva Convention”.
    * Resolution 476: ” . . . ‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claim to Jerusalem are ‘null and void'”.
    * Resolution 478: ” . . . ‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its
    claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law'”.
    * Resolution 484: ” . . . ‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported
    Palestinian mayors”.
    * Resolution 487: ” . . . ‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s
    nuclear facility”.
    * Resolution 497: ” . . . ‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan
    Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith”.
    * Resolution 498: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 501: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops”.
    * Resolution 509: ” . . . ‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 515: ” . . . ‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and
    allow food supplies to be brought in”.
    * Resolution 517: ” . . . ‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions
    and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 518: ” . . . ‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon”.
    * Resolution 520: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut”.
    * Resolution 573: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia
    in attack on PLO headquarters.
    * Resolution 587: ” . . . ‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw
    its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw”.
    * Resolution 592: ” . . . ‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students
    at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops”.
    * Resolution 605: ” . . . ‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices
    denying the human rights of Palestinians.
    * Resolution 607: ” . . . ‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly
    requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
    * Resolution 608: ” . . . ‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians”.
    * Resolution 636: ” . . . ‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
    * Resolution 641: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians.
    * Resolution 672: ” . . . ‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians
    at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
    * Resolution 673: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United
    * Resolution 681: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of
    * Resolution 694: ” . . . ‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and
    calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
    * Resolution 726: ” . . . ‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians.
    * Resolution 799: “. . . ‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians
    and calls for their immediate return.

  38. Comment #32

    I read your article. And I know Hezbollah doesn’t attack civilians. But the attack of military units when not in a state of war can be considered terrorism and can certainly justify war.

    In fact I agree with the premise of the article you posted. I simply listed all major acts of terrorism attributed to Hezbollah to make the point that they’re not saints and should be condemned. Perhaps you mistinterpreted my posts. I don’t like the Israeli actions and don’t support them. Their response was certainly not measured. But I don’t like Hezbollah’s actions and their approach to resolving the Middle East problems. Everyone is responsible. You seem to feel that only Israel is. That’s where we differ.

  39. Anachristian, it’s simple, they US and Israel wanted the destruction of Lebanon. Demilitarizing Hezbolah would have meant civil war, since they did not get that, invasion was the next choice.

    Remember after 9/11 many oil rich Arabs took their investments to Lebanon, they were dubious of US policies about confiscating Arab assets every time there was a jingoist reaction to Arabs. Imagine the economic threat of Lebanon.

  40. # 37, that is why I wanted to see what if any terrorist acts were Hizbolah in the last 10 years. Obviously they are not Al Queda et al when they are being described as terrorists.

  41. Once again… you deplore Israel but say nothing of what its endured since its existence.

    You seem to think that I hold the Israelis up on some pedastal. I assure you I don’t. I have never claimed that Israel is a model state, capable of no wrong. I’ve condemned, attacked and to a certain extent even supported all 3 parties in this mess. You however seem to take great interest is presenting Israel’s failures while ignoring the hatred and pressure that swirls around it.

    Israel is not perfect. It’s government is fiercely militaristic and fanatically protective of its lands and people. It lashes out with force and power when often diplomacy works better and I acknowledge all of this. On the same token, the Hamas and Hezbollahs of the world are equally fanatical about the destruction of Israel. They either targeted or continue to target civilians. The refuse compromise and adamantly deny Israel peace. Both sides are mirror images of each other, staunchly militaristic, unwilling to compromise and ready to react with force.

    As for the Lebanese government, they should have denounced Hezbollah. They should have moved their military (however weak) to the south and helped the UN police it. If it could neither of these things, it should have said so and asked the UN for more troops to patrol the southern border. It should NOT have just sat idly by and allowed a renegade militia/terrorist group to fire at a neighboring country.

    And while you’re at it: How should this situation be resolved? Why don’t you give me a point by point statement of how Israel should deal with a group that only wants to destroy it?

    As for the justification of Israel’s actions. If a state of war existed, Israel obviously has every right to conduct war. What has it done: bomb infrastructure, blockade the country, and cut off all supply routes. Has it killed civilians? Yes. Has it done so deliberately? I have no idea, and I’d think not (why drop the leaflets?). In essence, cutting off supply routes, blockades and destroying infrastructure is EXACTLY how a conventional war is waged. If a state of war exists, then Israel is conducting a military campaign.

    MY VIEW: No state of war exists and Israel is engaging in the wanton destruction of another nation out of frustration and anger. This is to be condemned and I do condemn it.

  42. Just to point out that hezbollah’s bombs/incursions etc that seem to come up again and again in these debates don’t come out of a void. Israel did not leave Sheeba Farms and this has been a point of contention over the last 6 years… Some info:

    IF Israel wants peace, wants to be left alone, it has a strange way of showing it. Have you ever seen, not heard or read about, Sharon talk about why he went to al-Aqsa? His words, while maintaining a wry grin: “I wanted to take a walk.” al-Aqsa was pure provocation. Even Sharon must have been aware that enough people consider him to be a war criminal that no visit to al-Aqsa would be considered a mere stroll. We have seen that Sharon, while brutal and mean, is no idiot. And this was BEFORE he was PM. The election of Hamas was met with outrage in Israel and the US – how do you think the election of Sharon was interpreted? The Butcher of Beirut the PM?!

  43. The UN resolutions you refer to are non binding.

    There is a difference between series 6 and series 7 resolutions.

  44. Actually, Sharons walk had nothing to do with the Intifada- it was a pretext, planned long before his ‘walk.’

    That was according to a PA minister.

  45. Dont resurect King David, resurect Rabin instead

  46. If, as you did in 29, you admit that Hizbollah and therefore Lebanon committed an act of war against Israel, there is no need to seek peace here. If this is indeed a true state to state war, the Israel might as well take off the gloves.

    But I don’t believe that is true. I do not believe anyone in Lebanon save Hizbullah believe they were at war with Isreal in June. Certainly my friends did not. Their daughters were in France, en route to Beirut. They did not believe there was war. We were buying tickets for my kids, my wife and me. We are only very lucky that our plans and theirs didn’t allow the girls to go until late July. My Lebanese friends daughters were three days away from heading back when the Israeli troops were kidnapped (accompanied by missile fire and a couple killings, for the heck of it.) At least I’m thankful Hizbullah didn’t wait until August.

    Oh, and if it makes you happy, CNN is reporting 11 soldiers dead, as well as 8 Lebanese civilians. Oh, the conspiracy!

    Yay Hizbullah! Yay Israeli! Poor Lebanon.

    And by the way, check the numbers, but I think the most likely cause for relatively high death rates among Arab Israeli’s is that 500,000 or so Israeli have fled the north. I wonder what the ratio of the northern towns, which are already well populated by Israeli Arabs is at this point?

    But of course Hizbullah is not at all to blame. It was the military installations in downtown Haifa they were shooting at.

  47. Interesting – CNN reporting the Haifa missiles came from Qana of all places, fwiw.

  48. Interesting about the Intifada. I had never heard that. That is not to say though that Sharon “had nothing to do with it” – according to the speech you link to he ‘was the straw that broke the camel’s back.’ Still, Sharon was clearly pleased with himself…
    Interesting also the take on the Camp David talks. Clinton fucked those up, badly. Barak and Arafat had to put up with a great deal of BS.

  49. Sharon was the excuse they were looking for.

    Do you think they would have held back for a few years if had not taken his walk?

  50. Sharon knew what he was doing and he knew that the consequences would be violent.

  51. Haaretz clearly indicated the 12 dead were IDF reservists. So I’m not really certain of the point you are making. Did other Israeli media not acknowledge this? Though they were soldiers, they were at a kibbutz which had broadcast an air raid siren announcing the attack. The soldiers apparently didn’t heed the sirens.

    Have you read the Haaretz report that the IDF is considering taking out “symbols of the Lebanese government” as a response to the latest killings in Israel? It also tries to make the claim that thus far it has not taken out “civilian infrastructure” so as not to harm the Lebanese people w. whom it is not at war. Simply unbelievable.

    All this seems to be (at least to me) an Israeli threat meant to get Lebanon to sign on to the UN ceasefire resolution.

  52. Speaking of classic media disinformation backfiring, here’s a gem: George Galloway takes on Rupert’s blonde propagandist. Thankfully, George knows his adversary well! Notice even the hostile framing. To state the obvious, the good people at News Ltd haven’t exactly mastered subtlety (read, Fox). Watch it & make up your own opinion:

  53. Re: Qana launchers:

    Like they were able to pinpoint the Hadera ones, right? Did t hey, I wonder, find the rockets IN HADERA? Or not yet? The Israelis will use anything – even the death of their civilians (especially if they are Arabs) to justify the massacre of Lebanese civilians.

  54. @ Richards1052:

    It took almost 24 hours for them to do so? Is Israeli media that stupid? Really now, minutes after the attack most Arab media who have correspondents in Israel reported that those killed were soldiers. It’s not exactly rocket science is it… And yet Israeli media continued to put things like “crowd of people” and “they didn’t take shelter” (soldiers are supposed to go to the shelter?). And absolutely no reference – not even one – that they could’ve been soldiers. The implication seemed to be that these were actually communal farmers who were working at Kibbutz Kfar Giladi… Yediot Achronot’s premise was that, and most Israelis insisted, in their comments, that these were farmers and not soldiers.

    I find it ironic that a Lebanese knows more about what’s going on in Israel than Israelis do. That’s what blind ignorance and pride in the invincibility of your army does, I suppose.

  55. Richard –

    The UN resolution can’t really be called a “ceasefire” resolution. It is not. It is much more than that. It is a gift to the Israelis. Notice the language. HezbAllah attacks, Israeli defense. Of course, Israel is defending itself by bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure – all the way to Al-Arz (Cedars) in the heart of Lebanon and Akkar in the north. Of course, the Nahr al-Bared dam poses a security threat for Israel, and Israel destroyed it in self-defense. Amazing.

    Lebanon will not accept the UN Resolution. The UN proved itself irrelevant to begin with from day 1, as it stood idly by watching civilians get massacred, so why should the Lebanese accept? Now the UN cares about Lebanese civilians all of a sudden? After 1 month of hell that Israel unleashed?

    The UN should be dismantled. It is a tool in the hands of the U.S. I always said this and I will repeat it now, if the UN was supposed to be an international community where all nations would discuss world matters on an equal footing, why do some countries have veto power? It seems that it is merely a diplomatic tool that some appeal to whenever it appeals to them and ignore it whenever it doesn’t. It also gives diplomatic cover and much-needed legitimacy in front of civilians.

  56. #38 (Anarchristian):
    There is a great deal of hypocrisy on the part of the Americans (especially Rice)as they talk to the Siniora government condesacendingly about disarming Hezbollah when they have done almost nothing over the last three years to disarm the two major Shiite militias in Iraq. After all, it has been only a short time ago (less than two years?) since the Syrians were pushed out and only 1 year since the Siniora government was installed.
    Stellaa and NeutralParty:
    I remember reading that six Israeli civilians were killed between the time of the Israeli withdrawal in 200 and July 12th. Anda couple of those, as I recall,were questionable.
    To all:
    Some quality commentary here. Keep up the respectful dialogue!

  57. PD –

    Yes, you are correct.

    What the Bush administration has so far achieved – and great achievements these were – was to start a terrible mess (one that will only result in its decline, sooner or later) and turn the whole region into a disaster zone; one thing is clear, though, the U.S and its proxies (Israel at the forefront, also the U.K and to a lesser extent France) are unwilling to clean up the mess they started. In fact, in many cases, they actively seek to perpetuate it. Is this the neo-cons’ idea of “constructive instability”? I fail to see the “constructive” in the destruction of an entire country under the pretext of freeing two soldiers who were taken prisoners of war, or even reasserting Israel’s “right to self-defense”. And why, I ask, is Israel the only one who has this right to self-defense? What about the Palestinians? How do they defend themselves? By submitting quietly to the occupation and dispossession? And what about the Lebanese?

    The U.N – what a load of BULLSHIT. They disgust me to no end.

  58. Hello, Anarchistian,
    I’m very glad to see that you are well and still able to convey events from Beirut as they happen. I have been away for awhile and unable to post, but wanted to check back to see how you were faring. I wished that this tragic conflict could have come to an end by now, but I don’t see it happening. I hope I am wrong.
    I absolutely agree with your last post. I didn’t think that I could become more disillusioned and angry with this administration than I was, but they have sunk to new lows. I believe as you do that the Bush administration did seek to perpetuate the conflict, and that is unconscionable. I can only hope that eventually the American people will put pressure on Bush to make a real effort to help end this war, but he never seems to be swayed by public pressure, so it’s doubtful.
    I wanted to let you know that our friend who was stranded in Beirut at the beginning of the war has finally evacuated. He was on one of the last transports out to Turkey. He spent a week on a military base in Adana before he was able to fly back to the US. I am happy he is back, but my thoughts and prayers are with all of the innocents on both sides of the border who don’t have the option to leave. Stay safe.

  59. Anarchistian (let me get the spelling correct this time):

    And my sense is that, if the Lebanese government does what the US and Israel want them to do (explicitly repudiate Hezbollah, etc.), they will create another Iraq. It is my understanding that the “divide and conquer” strategy was used effectively by Israel in Lebanon between 1982 and 2000. Perhaps the Lebanese have learned something.

    I think the Siniora government is doing about the best that it can given the cards that it has been dealt. Their response to the (irresponsible) UN resolution is what had to be done. Collaboration in suicide is not responsible action. As I watch Siniora, I am just waiting for him to say what he genuinely believes: “With friends like Bush, Blair, and Rice (and, yes, Hezbollah), Lebanon needs no enemies.”

    The best hope now is for the Arab League (and its countries) to act assertively and constructively. I do not think that Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia expected their anti-Hezbullah statement coming from their last meeting to provide the green light to Israel as it has. Now they have a responsibility to help clean up a mess that they certainly contributed to creating. Believe it or not, Bush and Rice actually believed that the three countries would sign on to their joint approach to a UN resolution. I read that the Arab League will be meeting again in Saudia Arabia later this week–and have individuals going to UN.

    Wouldn’t it be interesting and ironic if the “grown ups” in this case turn out to be Lebanon and other Arab countries and the “children” are Israel, the US, and Britain (and,to some extent, France)?

    I can’t disagree with anything you have said as relates to US or UN policy. Also, when Turkish soldiers were killed recently by Kurdish rebels from Kuridstan, should Turkey have the prerogative of levelling the Kurdistan province of Iraq?

    Well, we can just await the aftermath. I read that the US has offered weapons and military training (yes!) to the Lebanese government to help them get up to speed once the current fighting ends. Maybe those advisers can contribute to the integration of Hezbullah into the Lebanese fighting force! Word is that pro-American feeling in Lebanon is at an all-time high! I am sure that the Lebanese have been impressed by our continuing successes in Iraq!

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