Today I watched Red Cross workers and volunteers remove rotten corpse after corpse from under the rubble of a building in Ainata, where a number of civilians had taken refuge from intense aerial bombardments. Ainata is close to the border, slightly north of Bint Jbeil. At least 11 corpses of women and children have so far been removed, and most of them are in unidentifiable condition. At least 7 corpses of civilians have also been removed from Taibe, west of Kfar Kila, also near the border. It is estimated that these people have been rotting under the rubble for the past 10-15 days. Some aid has reached Rmaich, the southernmost town in Lebanon.
If what Israel did in Ainata, Taibe, Qana, Marwahine, Doueir, Srifa, Aitaroun, Houla, Tibnin, Nabatiye, Bint Jbeil, south Beirut, and other villages, towns, and cities was in self-defence, I don’t know what offense would look like…
Blogging the Middle East 
You could read about the second world war. Dresden, Tokyo, Horoshima, stuff like that. Or you can just wait and for the next war, coming soon.
listen mate, sort it out and open your screwed up eyes and realise
what is going on. the bloody jews or isrealis what ever you want to
call these terrorists are the ones who are threat to this world, they
are killing innocent people, mostly women and children. the whole of
isreal are cowards and are dumb enough to think that what their country
is doing is right. anyway at the end of the day they achieved nothing
and they basically lost the battle, i wouldn’t even call it a war as
they didn’t even put up a strong fight against hezbollah, they lost on
the ground and even with their air strikes they lost as they achieved
nothing. hezbollah flicked them away as you would flick a fly off your shoulder.
I am confused as to who to blame for these issues in Lebanon. I am a Jewish man that lives in the states so I only hear what’s on our news. Now just because I am jewish does not mean that I can’t see both sides so please don’t prejudge me. Why did Hezbollah go into Israel and kidnap two soldiers and launch rockets? That is the one thing we all forget. No matter how large or small the offense was what are people suppose to do when they are violated like that? Do we do nothing? Before you say Israel went too far ask yourself this one question. Why didn’t they return the soldiers after numerous attempts and bombings? Why would they allow Lebanon to take such a beating, pride maybe? I don’t know the answers but those are a few concerns on my mind.
Second question I have here. Why in the world would the Lebonese officials allow Hezbollah to jeopardize their country? Why would they allow this militant group form and grow under their jurisdiction? Lebanon has been a prosperous country over the past decade and now they have been set back once again. If we are going to blame anyone for this I think we need to focus on the government of Lebanon and why they were not more pro-active in preventing this behavior to exist in their jurisdiction. I am open to the fact that what I have said may be wrong and I hope I have not offended anyone so if you respond I would appreciate the same respect in return. Lack of respect for one another is a major problem we have especially when most of us have never or will never meet.
Maximus, how can you say those things with such conviction. I am assuming by your language that you are hearing your news second hand just like most of us. You make it sound like Israel woke up one morning and started launching rockets into Hezbollah. What would you do if someone came into your house and took your kids away and would not return them even after you made several threats and even backed them up? Would you give up and say ok, you can keep them?
What would you do if someone came into your house and took your kids away
Indeed, what would we? Well, “WE” have been silent for the longest time, but that seemed to encourage “YOU” to take more of “OUR” kids away. And when “WE” took TWO of “YOUR” kids away, which “WE” perceived would be the only way to get “OUR” kids back, “YOU” killed 1200+ of “OUR” kids, bombed “OUR” country for over a month, and in the end forgot what the alleged purpose of the campaign – namely to free two of “YOUR” kids – was.
Please do tell us the difference between how much “YOUR” kids mean to “YOU”, and how much “OURS” mean to “US”.
No one said Israel should give up and say you can keep them. The purpose of the capture of the two soldiers was negotiations, which would lead to the release of Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails (“our” kids) in return for the two captured soldiers (“your” kids). But what Israel said was: “Release our kids, we will not give back your kids! You have no right to demand them back!”
Well, to be fair, Hezbullah had killed, or tried to kill Isreali
soldiers in Isreal every year since the withdrawl of 2000. In 2000 they kidnapped two who later ended up dead. Hezbullah demanded the
release of, among others, Samir Kuntar, a confessed multiple murderer
and the same man Hezbullah demanded again this time around. Hezbullah turned down an offer of 400 prisoners rather than Samir Kuntar in 2004? – (I’ll have to check) – the “negotiations” and prisoner exchange for the 2000 kidnappings were not completed untill 03 or 04, so it’s not like
this was something that anyone on the Isreali side expected to end
soon.
That said, the Isreali response was completely over the top, criminal and also stupid. And predictable. Even if they had completely routed
Hezbollah, which was not likely to happen in the best of times, Lebanon was going to react against Isreal and toward Hezbullah since it is imposible to bomb a country with that much massive force and not be seen as an invader and destroyer. It’s fairly self-evident. Lebanon had not desire to be “liberated” – even less than some of those in Iraq might have.
They had a desire to see their rebuilding after a horrific civil war continue. They would not have stood up for Hezbullah had the response been proportionate. Isreal could have even gotten away with hitting Manzur, some Hezbullah offices, many Lebanese would probably have even dealt with Israel wacking Nasrallah – not welcomed it, but had a sense that that’s the game he’s playing, but I don’t know a single Lebanese person – and I know many “moderates” who do not believe that Israel was just waiting for a chance to set Lebanon back 100 years – and they don’t understand why. Frankly, I don’t either. Had Sharon not been so ill, perhaps there wouldn’t have been a need to seem so warrior-like.
Apparently there was also supposed to be high-level backdoor channeling between the US and Syria that never occured for whatever reason. I still don’t get it. It was both a moral and tactical disaster for Israel.
I understand what you are saying but why is Israel holding Lebanese prisoners? Could it be because they are extremist and want to cause harm to others? Hmmmm….That can’t be possible, can it? Forgive my sarcasm but all I am trying to do is show both sides. I know you probably don’t agree that any of your people are capable of doing harm onto others but if we have learned anything these past few years is that there are extremist out there that want nothing else but evil in this world. Now I am not saying we are perfect either, none of us are. We all have crazy people amongst us that are dangerous and murderers, not martyrs. I guess the people that organized 9/11 were innocent also and the one prisoner we have in custody should be released also because someone loves him. I don’t know if the individuals in custody to Israel are innocent or guilty and neither do you so please don’t respond like you do. What I do know is there are other ways of figuring these things out without violence or cowardly acts of terrorism. Oh yes, and to the statement above “you have no right to demand them back”, I am demanding nothing nor am I in the position to demand. That statement you made is the worlds biggest problem. We sterotype each other and we don’t even know one another. I realize I too am guilty of this and it is obvious in my words but we should try to look at each other as individuals and not as a member of a religous group or organization. Also please understand that I could easily argue your point just as easily as I can mine. I am extremely frustrated with both sides. I hope you can agree with me but you must admit that neither side innocent and neither side can ever be victorious. These people shooting guns in the street celebrating victory need to realize they are not, and the same goes for Israel. In a war where both sides are fighting for good should never exist and will only spawn evil and hatred. That is the complete opposite of wars in the past. Keep in mind that I am jewish but yet I don’t side with Israel or Hezbollah. The one I most angry at is the Lebanese government for allowing this to happen. They should have been tougher on Israel and Hezbollah. Believe it or not the world, at least here in the states, has great respect for Lebanon and the Lebanese people. Jews, Muslims, Christian, and everyone else live in America and we have no problems. I have a mosque across the street from my temple and we never even think about it. My business partner in a muslim and we don’t have any problems. Why is it that the rest of the world can’t exist like this?
Could it be because they are extremist
I donno… to me someone who kills 1200+ civilians to allegedly return 2 soldiers is more extremist and more criminal than someone who has bashed a 4-year-old’s skull with the butt of a rifle.. But that’s just me.
Or perhaps a non-elected para-military resistance/terrorist group
who provokes a war with a militarily more powerful neighbor (at
least from a fly and bomb perspective) over three criminals and a farm
(or at the behest of Teheran??) is more extremem.
Lots of ways to look at this nut, that’s for sure – and none of
them favor Israel or Hezbullah in my book. Two stupid, arrogant
groups committing stupid, criminal acts that ravage a third party – Lebanon.
I’m sorry but the ‘Happy Clappy Open Minded Individual’ must be in Comic-ville USA I can’t believe that most of America would know where Lebanon is. I’m so glad your business partner is a Muslim or is he a Sikh? & you thought that coz he had a Turban on he was Hizballah. Your CLOWN of a world leader, like my own, is doing incredible damage to our world if you think that everything is alright in the world or the USA then you should get out more because across ‘the pond’ were not Happy and thats putting it mildly
“Why is it that the rest of the world can’t exist like this?” (asked by the open minded individual)
i’ ve been reading this blog since July 13, and so far have not posted any comment. but i can’t take it anymore.
open minded individual, i think you should open your mind a little more and
study the history of the middle east, namely the creation of the state of israel, before asking naive quesions like this.
and then, i suggest you open your mind some more, look around you and realize that contrary to your claims, the usa has had and does face many problems: the massacre of its native american population, (the continuing) discrimination against african-americans (and now arab-americans) and most recently the outrageous proposal to build a wall along its border with mexico, to name JUST a few.
my advice is that not only you get out more, but read more and travel more. that’s the only way you’ll really open your mind.
Ok well I see why you have not posted a comment and that is because you are an idiot. What part of me saying none of us are perfect did you not understand??? Sure, we have our problems just like every other country but we don’t act like animals and pshyco killers. You are right about our country when you speak about the native americans and african americans but you are a complete idiot when you speak of the arab americans. Are they hated by some people here, of course. Who isn’t??? I too am hated by some americans for being jewish but am I every group has someone that hates them, yes even in america. And yes, I am aware of Israel and their beginnings as well as most of the world and other countries beginnings and all I can say to you is get over it. Most every country has been overthrown by someone at some point. Japan at one time in the 30’s and 40’s was probably the cruelest and inhumane country of all time. Why aren’t you whinning about that? The jews faced near extinction during the Hitler era, why don’t we whine about that? Since you are so stupid and naive, i’ll tell you why. It’s because nothing is perfect and it won’t ever be so you can cry and blame everyone for your problems or you can get off your … and make a difference in this world. I know I know, it’s much easier to cry and strap a bomb to your chest because someone tells you that you will be honored and be a hero but i’m sorry to say, that is not the case. The u.s. has made major mistakes in the past and contiues to do so today but at least we are civil to one another. As far as the wall to separate Mexico and the u.s., do you even know why? How can you make such a stupid statement when you don’t have a clue why. It is not our problem Mexico’s government can’t get it right. We have done so much for that country and all they do is take advantage of us. I ask you how is that right? They get pregnant in Mexico and then sneak across the border to have their baby because they don’t have to pay for it. Is that right? We don’t think so but we allow it because it’s more wrong to say no and people don’t deserve that, oh yeah, I forgot we are bad people. You are a jackass!!! And here is the kicker to your statement. We do so much for Mexico and don’t really enforce the rules as much as we could but yet, they still have the nerve to protest on our streets and tell us, not ask, tell us they want to become citizens because it is their right. You want to know what would happen if we did that in Mexico? We would go to jail. Kids that don’t have a clue skip school which is free by the way, so they can protest on our streets. Before you make jackass statements like the last one, do me a favor and think before you speak. Have I told you to stop whinning yet? Look in the mirror and except the fact that the only person you can blame for your poor life is yourself. Get over the past because you can do nothing about it. The past is no excuse because I am not responsible for it and neither are you. Idiot!!!
As a general rule, Lebanese are not given a very hard time in the States today and there are many, many instances of Jewish/Isreali and Arab/Muslim business partners.
In fact, I know a lot of Iranians, Iraqis and Lebanese who find out they have more in common with Israelis when they are in the States and Canada.
open minded individual,
while apricot did overlook your qualification that none of us are perfect,’ I don’t think she at all warranted the response you’ve given her. what does ‘idiot!’ tell anyone?
If it means anything to ya, i am jewish by birth – but an athiest – and an american – but an internationalist – and I happen to disagree with everything you say. Who is this ‘we’ that has suddenly crept into your speech? I think it’s more than right for people of any nationality to cross ‘our’ borders while pregnant to earn citizenship for their child – if it’s possible do it by breaking the law or not. They are looking after their kid – having two passports is a real bonus in this world. I joined ‘them’ in protests. I took my kids there. They played with the kids off from school. If my kids were school age, I would have taken them out of school – and they aren’t mexican. But they did go through this absurd thing called immigration… ok? so don’t include me in your ‘we’.
As for your earlier questions, they are impossible to answer because, as Apricot is saying, they preclude an answer with any historical precedent. Your suggestion to ‘get over it’ is about as bourgeois as they come. Fortunately, we don’t live in an fully rational world in which history is a vacuum. Jews, incidentally, have not gotten over the holocaust, neither have most people. Just as Japan has not ‘gotten over’ Nagasaki and Hiroshima (though you are right that it is criminal the war crimes Japan has been able to sweeo under the carpet). Just as Native American’s have not ‘gotton over’ America (read about COUNTERINTELPRO).
My goodness, things have heated up here. It is important to understand there are real reasons for anger on both sides. There is truth on both sides. Sometimes the truth may be identical, even if it isn’t seen as identical. (By way of example, place a coffee cup on a table. Look at it straight on. You see a cup with a handle. Move 90 degrees and you see a cup without a handle. One can argue with honesty the cup does no havea handle, while the other can argue the cup does have a handle. Both are correct from their view, and the reality does not matter because the only real reality is the perception of the party.)
There is enough blame for Hezbollah. There is enough blame for Israel. There is enough blame for Iran and Syria. There is enough blame for the United States. This problem has existed for decades and all parties have portions of blame. The solution lies not in violence, for violence has been used for four decades and has not worked, and will not work to make peace unless one side completely destroys the other side. This is reality. The question is, can there be a peace? No one can answer this question for certain. One thing is clear, even the United States needs to rethink it’s Middle East policies. I wrote, in response to President Bush’s “Stay the Course,” an article at http://blue-is-beautiful.blogspot.com/2006/08/stay-course-no-change-course.html called “Stay the Course? No! “Change the Course!” I am not an expert, but it obvious that doing the same thing, the same way and expecting different results isn’t rational.
Peace requires new ideas, not new weapons. The idea that another war shall bring peace does not fit in the history of this conflict.
open minded individual,
maybe you were offended by my somewhat condescending tone, and i apologize for that. at least that’s the only way i can explain your angry and self-defensive reply.
if you really want to understand what state of mind drives people like, say, the palestinians to resist an occupation in violent means (means i’m not saying i support), i suggest you analyze the intolerant feelings you have revealed towards mexican immigrants (excuse me if i can’t feel the tolerance you claim to have towards people from all nations in your tone) and compare them to what palestinians who have been evicted from their own land and who are now prisoners in their own land, who are not allowed to drive on the same roads as israelis, whose homes are bulldozed and orchards destroyed (well the list goes on) go through everyday.
as for “the past being no excuse”, the usa has attacked 2 countries so far in response to 9/11. i think you would agree with me that no one here has “gotten over” 9/11…
anyway, i am not here to educate anyone.
ben, thank you for your comments.
Ben, you are right, the words I chose to use and the conviction in which they were delivered was out of line and not warranted. Because of those words and conviction and your comments about them we are witnessing a perfect example on how people should act. As far as you stance on our borders and immigrants coming over we do have different opinions. I understand how you feel about it because I feel the same way but unfortunatley it is much more complicated than that. In the “perfect world” there would not be any problem with any of this. As much as we would like to help everyone and pay for their medical bills we simply can’t. Our country just like many others walks a fine line so we have to be careful with our resources. You say you were protesting along side with them and that is great, but don’t you think they should try to change their country before trying to change ours? They illeagally cross the border and then try to change our laws. What would happen if you did that in Mexico? Now you are probably thinking it is not that easy to get away with in Mexico but quite the contrary. The amount of people involved would definetly make the voices heard. My father is an immigration attorney and he helps people come here everyday. It is possible to do it the right way. Opening our borders for people to utilize our resources would throw our balance way off and then we would be just like every poor country out there. Our forefathers did not sacrifice their lives for that. There is no perfect solution to that scenario, only logical. That is sad but that is the world we live in. As far as the jews and the holocaust, you are right, people will never forget that. What I was trying to say is you don’t hear people publicly asking for sympathy or money. We, when I say we I am speaking for the vast majority of PRACTICING JEWS, live our lives knowing what people have sacrificed for us in the past but instead of getting revenge on the past we protect ourselves for the future. These are only my opinions, we are both right about the border issues. We must look out for ourselves first if we are ever going to useful to anyone else.
When I was speaking about Japan I was not referring to Nagasaki or Hiroshima, I was referring to the way they tortured China for years. I have been to Japan several times and I think it is one of the most beutiful places on earth with the friendliest people. I guess my point there is if they can be one of the cruelest governments of all time only 60 years ago and now be one of the most prosperous, then my way of thinking is not that far off base. Also, I do appreciate your opinions, you sound like a thoughtful person.
“Open minded individual”,
No insults please.
As for:
we don’t act like animals and pshyco killers.
So killing 1200+ civilians is not “acting like animals and psycho killers”, but capturing 2 IDF soldiers is? I can see already how “open-minded” you are.
And no racism, I forgot to add.
Get over the past because you can do nothing about it.
Likewise the Jews should’ve just “[gotten] over the past” because they could do nothing about it? So they shouldn’t have demanded compensation, shouldn’t have commemorated the holocaust, and here I’m not even talking about turning it into an industry in support of the Zionist agenda…
You keep referring back to the 1200 to 2 ratio here. I must agree with you, Israel had no business sending rockets into Lebanonese neighborhoods no matter what kind of spin they put on it, but hezbollah instigated this from day one. This is exactly what they wanted which is why they struck first. The idividuals you keep speaking of that Israel’s holding are PRISONERS and should not be set free (guilty or innocence we don’t know). Apples and oranges here. These people should have never had this kind of power in the first place.
No racism, why not? We all should be racist against these people that are strapping bombs to their bodies or launching rockets or flying planes into buildings and blowing up innocent people. These people are evil so I am racist against them. Why would you take offense to me calling people like that animals or phsyco killers? Are you actually defending that kind of behavior?
hezbollah instigated this from day one.
Instigated what? The war on civilians, which, by the way, ISRAEL STARTED? HezbAllah rockets did not hit Israeli towns until the first rockets hit Lebanese towns and villages. And even then, it wasn’t until a few days into the “crisis” that such a thing happened.
This is exactly what they wanted
Really? Ah, so yeah, you keep on adopting the “you don’t care about your children, we do” (the “logical” continuation of that would be, “so you deserve what your children get”?). So let’s see, HezbAllah wanted the entire south to be destroyed, the entire southern suburbs of Beirut to be destroyed, 1200+ civilians to be killed, because “this is exactly what they wanted”… And you also admit that Israel was dumb enough to give HezbAllah what it wanted? Or was Israel happy enough to oblige?
The idividuals you keep speaking of that Israel’s holding are PRISONERS
Prisoners? OK, since you choose to battle semantics, so is Gilad Shalit, and so are Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser. What is your point?
No racism, why not?
What exactly are you on? Racism is hatred of an entire race, based on generalizations. Anti-Semitism is a form of racism. Is hatred of all Jews justified, based on the terrorism of the state of Israel? (if you ask me, bombs strapped to people’s bodies is not much different than chemical weapons thrown on entire residential neighbourhoods, instigation or no instigation – of course, we can consider the occupation and the keeping of prisoners as instigation, but you will say that’s not instigation except when the captured are Israelis…)
or launching rockets
Yes, launching rockets… something Israel didn’t do.. of course, it’s all a conspiracy theory, all doctored images, actually we destroyed our buildings with our rockets and then accused Israel of throwing missiles – chemical ones at that… Yup.
War in Lebanon is a tragedy. It has gone on for far too many years. The continued war is a failure of the nations of the world to bring peace. It is the failure of the United States to provide a strong moral policy in the Middle East. I have posted an article on the subject titled Swift Action Required by America – The Big Iran Threat. Please do not make conclusions based on the title alone. The URL is http://blue-is-beautiful.blogspot.com/2006/08/swift-action-required-by-america-big.html.
I hope wise minds are able to bring an end to cycle of violence in the Middle East.
The commentary from “open minded individual” spurs from me a comment:
Which united states do you come from? Not the one I know.
ALL IS NOT WELL HERE and it has not been for 500 years and going. Your view presents like far, far too many of the american people that I encounter every day of my life: ignorant of what is ALWAYS BEFORE YOUR EYES. It is my opinion and belief that as long as you americans IMAGINE and STATE that your country is the best in the world (barring human imperfections) that that alone MAKES IT SO – in other words, as long as everything LOOKS good on the outside (in your denying imaginations) that is the ONLY THING that matters. YOu know – “pretty on the outside whether a can of worms exists on the inside to be DENIED.
In my opinion and belief, american peoples on the whole, have only, will only, live in some exaggerated and false belief of themselves. It would be foolish of you to argue and argue with me on this point as I am immune to all your false delusions of who you THINK yourselves as and am ACUTELY aware of WHO YOU REALLY ARE. The masses of you have not abstracted in thought to the layers upon layers of this meaning or lack of meaning to your true selves. As I have observed my life long – you are truly a people who do not YET know WHO YOU ARE. Oh, yes, you have defined yourself already as an american jew. Don’t even ask me what that means to me. YOU will get a treatise,and I am also immune to YOUR jewish (not all jews thanks be to GOD! but far, far too many) WHINE OF ANTI-SEMITISM if you say ANYTHING about jewishdom, zion-ism or israel that jews do not agree with. You are another pot calling another kettle BLACK. Hypocrisy, blindness and arrogance again all rolled up into the nasty mess of racism accusations. By your quick descent into name-calling, you let your cat out of the bag as to who you really are under your attempts at mr. “nice guy”.
You see I have done my research and continue to do so. The america you inhabit is one of exactly as I have described of ‘american peoples’. I rather despise your lies, your phony smiling, stab-em in the back value system. I intensely despise your way of pretending you are, and everthingsOK here when this country was founded upon theft, murder, massacres, corruptions and total covert-covering over RACISM. Then you LIED in your history books and changed your ugly selves for your ancestry to come – so they also could carry on your blasphemous lies and continue to make the utterly false claims of “greatness” and superiority underneath your racist beliefs. Yes! It is UNDERNEATH that is the truest identity of “american”.
In the beginning: you(proud american) trashed & polluted) pristine land OWNED by over 500 NATIONS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES. “Owned” but never boasted of ownership – talking instead of human rights where time & use placed them before anyone else on the planet. Lots of time – ice ages of time. Plenty of time to have figured out how to be “human” and in fact, all indigenous tribes have the meaning of “the real people, the human beings & the people” in their names for themselves – NOT as termed by the arrogant “american” IMMIGRANTS who landed here with their vile and violent notions. WE DID NOT CALL OURSELVES “AMERICAN INDIAN”! We had our own language – of which all white minds tried to institutionalize punishments for even speaking those languages! Your great america lala land religion was one of the major killers of our peoples. What hypocrits you fasle peoples are! Do your damned research – get off your lazy butts and ATTEMPT to discover yourselves.
Since it is obvious that you don’t know your “american” history, I suggest you keep your words to yourself about anything that pertains to your pride in being american. I say you are ignorant as your masses. If you DID know your history (american), you would know that the usa was not your friend back when the jews were being placed in those death camps of Germany. american officials did not want the jews in “their country”. Why do you think they went behind closed doors to help make sure that the zion-ists got UN approval to STEAL PALESTINE? So much you do not know.
american government is steeped in back-door dirty dealings. WE WOULD KNOW!! Every TREATY that was made with the more than 500 TRIBAL NATIONS of OUR LAND was broken by the usa govt. ALL OF THEM!
So don’t talk of holocausts either if you have the notion to. Yours was not the first nor is it the last. It is not an act of punishment by any God either – it IS – MAN’S INHUMANITY TO MAN. PERIOD! Just as the new “savages”, the Palestinian Arabs are being holocausted by the zion-ist government of israel with the now EXPlICIT help of the american government and the british government. Colonialists and imperialists ALL.
YES! america’s new savages: the Arab peoples of the planet. You know. YOUR SEMITIC BROTHERS!
Oh, and don’t bore me to tears with ANY WHINE of “anti-semitism”. I am immune to it. Its just the evil of the israeli government to use their own terrible genocide as a new tool in THEIR TURN TO GENOCIDE the palestinian’s and any Arabs that do not accept the truth of their hideous ideologies of superior and “chosen”. Another wicked turn of “Manifest Destiny”. God, you have a lot of smartening up to do mr. open minded. Since it was you who brought up the fact of your jewishness, then you can expect some feedback. In this “ugly new world” we are all now defining ourselves by our race – what a pathetic and immature commentary. THE HUMAN RACE IS REGRESSING IN THIS 21st century! If you want to go head to head on jewish/hebraic history, we can do that too. I don’t think this is a forum for that though. The zion-ist government in israel and all its supporters, collaborators hoodwinked the world into believing it was STILL CHOSEN. Talk to your Neturai Karta. They will set you straight. I believe they, the israeli’s who are fighting alongside the Palestinian’s and other Arabs, the Refuseniks and a slim minority of other israeli’s are the ONLY moral part of israeli society. The rest has been ruined by its damaged mentality of “chosen” and its belief that IT ALONE HAS THE RIGHT TO USE A HOLOCAUST as a BULLY TOOL for the rest of the world to fall into place. I despise and am disgusted at what israel stands for. It is no nation worthy of being called “nation” for its great crimes against humanity and its WAR CRIMES. PERIOD!
Here in america so-called: the jews DO OWN IT! GET OFF YOUR BLINDERS! I have travelled enough to know WHO OWNS WHAT. That in itself is not enough to indict among a group of indictable things of this sad nation, but when that wealth is USED AGAINST collective peoples for DOMINATION AND FOR POWER OVER THEM AND THEIR LANDS, then I INDICT!!! When that wealth is used (from my taxes!) to MURDER CHILDREN, WOMEN, YOUTH, ELDERS, MEN AND THIEVE THEIR LANDS, then i spit on that wealth and the hands that make it. oh I can say volumes and write a treatise on this alone.
You gave yourself away again when you lay the blame of israel’s ILLEGAL, and CRIME OF WAR AGAINST LEBANON, upon the government of Lebanon. The so called “state” of israel has a history from its birth in 1948 of TERROR – MURDER and MASSACRES against the indigenous peoples of Palestine. Israel is a military WITH A STATE. Haven’t you heard this TRUE commentary? All you have to do is LOOK, OPEN-MINDEDLY, AT ISRAELI HISTORY to see, know and understand this fact. Don’t tell me you didn’t know about the Irgun. Don’t tell me you didn’t know about the “really open” Ben Gurion and his statements that the Palestinians must be pushed off their lands – destroyed. Thats a paraphrase, but LOOK IT UP! All israeli prime ministers and heads of state were military people who murdered in the name of their “chosenness”, “security”, and all the LIES they hid behind while they committed grave breaches of every UN Resolution mandated upon them! EVERYONE in israeli society is raised to be in the military. MANDATED! israel is a military mindset. Military mindset is trained to “kill the enemy”. Oh where is the BLACK FLAG RAISED? Overall? Only the few jews/israeli’s who TRULY ARE THE ONLY CONSCIENCE OF ITS NATION.
Need I remind you then, of the bombing of israel’s own King David Hotel killing the diplomats and others who were there for negotiating? Need I remind you of the killing of american naval military of the USS LIBERTY by the zion-ist israeli government? Oh israel is a bad bad state – just like its best friend, benefactor american government and its AIPAC dirty lobby. Tell me oh open-minded one that you don’t know even this bit of american news? I find you smelling of something rotten … like lies and subterfuge. Yes.
One last by the way: The real truth of the entirety of Hezbollah is not yet been said. I asked myself, “who else is standing up to the BULLY ISRAEL! I know this much: hezbollah came into existence the way all RESISTANCE groups come into existence – because lands and peoples are being stolen and murdered by so-called “super-powers”. PERIOD!
In the days of my peoples, Crazy Horse, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Hynmot-toolya-laket, Red Cloud, to mention only the few of the many, many, many great RESISTORS against the mighty and ugly face of the violent and crazed military of the so-called us military of old – these ones also were demonized into the “barbaric savages”. US propaganda’s all through its centuries of infamy and amorality hold no sway over me. Whomever they trash, dehumanize and try to destroy is the red flag for me that the GREAT LIES AGAIN REIGN AS SUPREME PROPAGANDA! To quote your american vernacular: You damned rights I do know a propaganda!
Whoever you are “open-minded” – just your epistle here has shown you to have “two faces”. I wouldn’t trust you for a second. You sound too much like a “treaty maker”. YES you do. Your second “face” is a vile name-caller when the other writer just asked you to do your research.
“Your” america: a can of worms. Look at the epitome of your government – its who you all really are – those of you who show your “two faces”. You must have just about reached your zenith and israel is your friend. Both of these so called nations now endanger MY/OUR world!
Lets not go into how the likes of these two governments are destroying ALL THE LANDS OF ALL THE TRUE HUMANS OF THIS PLANET. ALL OUR HOMES!!! GO RESEARCH NUCLEAR POSSESSION AND THE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE THE MOST OF THIS!
I HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO SAY ABOUT THESE THINGS THAT IT WOULD TIRE YOU OUT AND MAKE YOU GO AWAY. YOU COULD NOT TAKE IT.
Deennaa – Copper River Dene – en’zaagah’kah en’dee’ee zuch! Not YOUR “american indian”.
Deennaa,
Concerning “open minded,” he said, horrible things, and professing himself to be wise, acted more like a complete fool. I am always amazed at minds that are all mixed up, and set in concrete, as it appears in this case, which combine with self-righteousness and arrogance.
My guess is “open minded” has never traveled outside the United States of America, or if he has, has done so in the comfort of very tourist accomodiations. I do not get any sense he has studied any world history, in any objective way. The perception of the reflection of the world, without having touched any other location are tainted by the absense of information necessary to see any more than a small piece of the screen of life.
Many American’s are unaware that the history of America is what white men say the history of America was because white men wrote the history of America. Recent studies have added excluded information and created a little better picture of reality.
It is my hope, that “open minded” is not a reflection of real Americans. If he really open minded, is a question in my mind. Perhaps he was simply having a bad day. I can not say, I can only hope, if he is going to post in international forums that he does not mind if when people see him acting foolishly, and tell him that he learns for the experience.
Ah yes, but when will Hezbullah stand up to Syria and Iran – who are and have been bullying Lebanon – and killing Lebanese… or, of course, the civil war, which was certainly the US and Isreal’s fault – not a battle between Christian/Marronite entrenched interests and rising Sunni/Shia’a population and power.
The reality that must be faced is Lebanon and Isreal are at war, depite the names on a paper in ’49. Lebanon does not recognize Israel. Hezbullah wants it pushed into the sea. A Hezbullah rep in the Lebanese government was interviewed on the radio today: “Do you believe Isreal has a right to exist?” “It exists, right now that is a fact. In our heart we believe it is Palestinian land …”
So, did all the Jews simply leave the Eastern tip of the Mediteranean over the years because they had an urge to see the world? The problem with equating Palastinians and North American indigenous peoples is the battle in Palestine/Israel is not between British Anglo-Saxons and Huron. It is between Huron and Iroqouis. Who was where first? Who was there last? How many of who were where when? After the Trail of Tears, are the Cherokee then interlopers in the Carolinas?
Everyone wants to pick their 0 year and each will pick the start of history to conform to their beliefs.
News: It is reported that the Bush Administration quietly gave the Israeli air force permission to bomb suspected trucks bringing weapons to Hezbollah from Syria into Lebanon. http://blue-is-beautiful.blogspot.com/2006/08/bush-administration-israeli-air-force.html
What does this mean for the UN Peace agreement? Will this help the peace, or will this mean the peace agreement is not worth the paper it is written on?
The peace agreement is already dead. The Lebanese army will not touch Hezbullah’s arms. Assad is already making noise, some non-Hezb gov officials have already objected (one called it “warlike” or something similar. Harari’s son has come out bashing Assad today –
This is a lull. Sheba’a will not be addressed, the planned Israel withdrawl from West Bank is DOA. 6 months of calm and Hezbullah will need to show it has not really disarmed and there will be another “incident.”
All this talk about who-started-what-when is fine: HezbAllah started it with capturing 2 soldiers, Israel started it by trashing Gaza (again), the Palestinians started it by capturing 1 soldier, Israel started it by kidnapping 2 brothers.
Frankly, I think there is a much larger and more sinister plan at work. If you believe the latest reporting of Seymore Hirsch in The New Yorker, and, to be honest, I have a tendency to believe the guy as he’s been so right on so many other occasions – there simply is no “we did this because they did that” mentality. This war was planned at least a year ago – with full cooperation and prodding from Bush and his other 3 horsemen. All The United States of Israel were looking for was the slightest (bogus) “provocation” to justify the implementation of the first stage – conducting a military campaign against an entrenched, Arabic enemy, and evaluating what worked and what didn’t.
Israel’s attack, in Hersch’s opinion (and more and more in mine), was just a dry run. “Who did what to whom” simply has nothing to do with anything. It was a training mission; the lessons learned upon the debriefing will be used against Iran.
On another topic: not too many years ago, I spent quite some time simply travelling around the world. As a matter of curiosity, I quickly fell into the habit of asking locals, wherever I went, what their “take” was on tourists/travellers from other countries.
There were only two consistent threads which ran through a stunning majority of replies I got (although, admittedly, not quite a scientific study, but still cause for pause):
A) Americans: naive
B) Israelis: bullies and most likely to steal from shop owners.
The blame lies with everyone. It’s a pity that the peace deal doesn’t resolve anything. I liked the Arab plan better since it actually had the guts to deal with some core issues. Now it’s just a matter of re-arming and rebuilding before doing this all over again. Quite pathetic really. If you care… read the following post I made on the peace deal. Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated (even if you think I’m an idiot).
http://neutralparty.wordpress.com/2006/08/16/we-accomplished-nothing/
And I’d like to state that “open minded” isn’t a representation of Americans, atleast in my experience. I’ve lived in the USA for a few years now and I’ve yet to meet a complete bigot and racist.
Neutralparty,
I read your report and would like to get some confirmation on something you mentioned: “Almost 5 years of rocket attacks by Hezbollah on the IDF from Lebanese soil.”
I’ve read both here and elsewhere that in the last 6.5 years, there have been no rocket attacks by HezbAllah and that, during that time, there were numerous artillery attacks by Israel – with no response by HezbAllah.
So what’s going on here?
There have been plenty of rocket attacks by Hezbullah. Your information is simply wrong. And its amazing that in all your travels you only got confirmation of your position on two groups. That’s really quite astounding. What are the odds?
Actually Chris, the IDF has been attacked plenty of times by Hezbollah. Israeli CIVILIANS have not been attacked by Hezbollah. The IDF has taken plenty of damage… perhaps you should recheck that info.
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said, “Arabs in the Middle East hate the United States more than ever following the invasion of Iraq and Israel’s assassination of two Hamas leaders.” “People have a feeling of injustice. What’s more, they see (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon acting as he pleases, without the Americans saying anything. He assassinates people who don’t have the planes and helicopters that he has.” (2004 quote)
The Bush Administration is quick to blame Hezbollah for the Hezbollah-Israeli war. Perhaps uninformed American’s believe Israel to be without blame, but the reality is that Israel has ignored over five dozen United Nation Security Council resolutions.
Any idea that Israel does not cause problems have not paid attention. Quoting Ambassador James Akins, “Turning to the Golan Heights, Akins noted that the United Nations investigated about 1,000 incidents of border skirmishes. Only 10 of them were found to have been caused by the Syrians, another 20 were ambiguous, and all of the rest were found to have been caused by Israelis. Yet the majority of people still believe that the Syrians were firing upon innocent Israeli peasants from the Golan, thus justifying Israel’s invasion and continued occupation of that fertile and strategic land. In his diaries, Moshe Dayan confirmed the UN investigations and said that one of the worst mistakes of his life was to yield to the pressure of the settlers who lusted after the waters and the rich lands of the Golan Heights.” http://www.alhewar.org/james_akins.htm
Whole article available at http://blue-is-beautiful.blogspot.com/2006/08/unfair-and-unbalanced-american-middle.html
The other innocent civilian in this mess was the unilateral withdrawl from the West Bank. Basically the reason Olmert was elected. That idea is now DOA.
Let me quote Reuven Pedatzur of Haaretz, discussing research done by Daniel Sobelman of Tel Aviv University’s Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies:
___
http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/haaretz160804_en.html
Tired,
These comments I got consistently fell to Americans and Israelis. Others were mentioned, of course, but it was kind of all over the place. But locals mentioning Americans and Israelis came up quite regularly – and not in a nice way. Anecdotal information, I know, but I never prompted them – just asked them what they thought of the people they met from other countries. If they asked me first where I was from, I’d pick something I thought would be neutral, like Canadian, and, as I said, Americans and Israelis came up time after time after time.
This included Egypt, India, Thailand, and Japan – and points in between.
Thanks all for the extra info on HezbAllah rocket attacks across the border.
I’ve been busy since typing my last response to open minded. and it looks as if Anarchistan has stepped out somewhat (though by the lack of messages from OMI, I’d imagine anarchistan is doing some filtering). Open minded: this is not the place for a discussion on immigration. Let’s agree to disagree…
Anarchistan: thanks for the frequent updates etc. during the height of this war. This blog was my first visit of the day for news!
Chris: Yes, there is definately the perception around the world of americans as naive, loud, obnoxious etc. As for Israeli’s, I suspect this perception comes from the younger Israeli’s who end up in exotic locations selling fake rolex’s etc. I don’t know if there is anything behind the notion of them as thieves. I’d imagine some of that comes from their appearance (which seems to be a uniform): pierced eyebrows, tatoos, unwashed hair.I don’t think otherwise there would be much of a ‘perception’ of Israeli’s one way or the other… but negative stereotypes of all different nationalities exist and they don’t give you any insight into anything, but do perpetuate intolerance of all sorts.
Where have you gone? Is everything o.k.? We are from Canada and have been checking your website for clues as to the truth of the situation in Lebanon. We really hope that you are good and that you are just busy with the rebuilding. How is it going? are you receving aid? Please don’t stop updating us as to what is going on. Your problems are ours as well. We all live on the same planet.
May we all learn to live together in peace,
Nia
Markham, Ontario
Canada
HOW DISGUSTING: BUSH WANT TO RIVAL HEZBOLAH IN REBUILDING AFTER HE CREATED THE MAYHEM…
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-usmideast17aug17,1,7685307.story?coll=la-headlines-world
CEASE-FIRE IN THE MIDDLE EAST
U.S. Hopes to Rival Hezbollah With Rebuilding Effort
Administration officials say quick action is needed in response to the militant group’s reconstruction plans.
By Paul Richter
Times Staff Writer
August 17, 2006
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is scrambling to assemble a plan to help rebuild Lebanon, hoping that by competing with Hezbollah for the public’s favor it can undo the damage the war has inflicted on its image and goals for the Middle East.
Administration officials fear that unless they move quickly to demonstrate U.S. commitment, the Lebanese will turn more fully to the militant group, which has begun rolling out an ambitious reconstruction program that Washington believes is bankrolled by Iran.
American officials also believe that the administration must restore its influence to keep a newly assertive Syria from undermining U.S.-supported reformers in Lebanon.
A major rebuilding investment would put the United States in the position of subsidizing both the Israeli munitions that caused the damage and the reconstruction work that will repair it. Such a proposal could meet with resistance from Congress, but administration officials said that the need for action was urgent.
“People have been seized by the need to do more, in a tangible way, and they’re working feverishly on this,” said a senior administration official who asked to remain unidentified because he was speaking about plans still in development. “They know we’re in a race against time to turn around these perceptions.”
U.S. officials and private experts agree that the administration faces an uphill effort trying to outdo Hezbollah, which has a broad local base, well-developed social service programs and the confidence of many Lebanese.
“Hezbollah is deeply integrated into Lebanese society,” said Jon Alterman, a former State Department official who is head of Middle East studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.
“We’re coming in when there’s a sense that we stood by the destruction of Lebanon by an ally, with U.S. weapons, and didn’t complain. So we may be too late.”
Even so, Alterman said he supported the idea of trying to rebuild U.S. influence in Lebanon at a time when the political situation there is in flux.
The United States has only $50 million in the pipeline for relief and rebuilding in Lebanon, a figure dwarfed by multibillion-dollar estimates of the need. The U.S. is lagging behind some other contributors, such as Saudi Arabia, which has pledged $1.5 billion. An international donors conference is to be held Aug. 31.
But American officials say they expect to expand the effort, which is largely focused on rebuilding the airport, restoring electric power, cleaning up environmental damage and reconstructing some of the estimated 150 destroyed bridges.
The U.S. effort is aimed in part at supporting its allies in the fragile Lebanese central government, which is competing with Hezbollah for influence. Moving rapidly, Hezbollah officials fanned out across the country this week, canvassing the needs of residents and promising help. In some areas of the south, Hezbollah already had fielded cleanup teams with bulldozers.
The U.S. official said talk of a deeper rebuilding role was one of several discussions underway within the administration. He said there was talk about launching a broader diplomatic and economic initiative for the Middle East aimed at increasing involvement in mediating the Arab-Israeli conflict, as well as in regional economic development and politics.
Officials are “focused on the idea that things better change, or we’re going to have serious problems,” he said. Many people in the region believe the United States was a “co-combatant” in the war, he acknowledged.
With Congress on its August break, lawmakers have not explicitly taken positions on funding for rebuilding. But some influential members have given indications.
Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, has said he would like the United States to take a lead role in the rebuilding by giving generously and organizing meetings of donors. He has argued that the U.S. missed an opportunity by failing to do more in Lebanon last year, as Syria withdrew its troops from the country, leaving a partial vacuum.
Sen. Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.), chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, voted for a resolution that called for a postwar donors conference. But he made it clear that there should be careful planning before the U.S. committed large sums, an aide noted.
Alterman, the analyst, said providing aid posed complicated challenges in Lebanon, and that the money could easily be wasted without the United States getting any advantage from it.
“Lebanon is a tough commercial environment…. It’s tough coming from the outside, trying to identify reliable people,” he said. “We could end up getting no credit — or, worse yet, it could end up in the bank accounts of the very people who are trying to get us out.”
…and the US hasn’t exactly got a great track-record on rebuilding.
Ben,
Actually, the Marshall Plan worked very well. The US pumped almost 15 billion dollars into rebuilding Europe after WWII and this went a very long way to getting the continent back on its feet, economically. Having said that, the Plan was a bit two-faced in that the political motivation was to prevent the spread of Communism, and products bought with the new money had to be used to buy American products, shipped on American shipping vessels. In spite of it all, it was an enormous help.
I can’t imagine, though, that the Lebanese would be overjoyed at receiving US money considering the fact that the bombs that destroyed buildings, bridges, irrigation canals, etc. had “Made in the USA” written on them – more than a little two-faced, and done not out of any sense of compassion – but just to try and upstage HezbAllah. Politics red in tooth and claw.
And while I’m thinking of it, has the US (or any of the other nations pledging money) alloted any of it into rebuilding Palestine? Let’s not forget the IDF riot that took place there, too. For the life of me, I will never get over the single most amazing statistic I’ve read this year in terms of Israel and Palestine: 6,000 IDF artillery shells sent into Gaza in a 2 and a half month period – that’s something like one every 20 minutes!
Yes, Chris, and those 6000 shells were sent into Gaza just when the “terrorist” group Hamas (I mean, Israel is not a terrorist state…surely!) was sticking to a truce….
Mainstream Hamas has been very good, but according to UN, “Palestinians have fired on average between 8-9 homemade rockets per day towards Israel (319 in total) and the Israeli military has fired on average 200-250 artillery shells per day into the Gaza Strip and conducted at least 220 aerial bombings.” As is their habit Isreal reacts disproportionately, and as is their habit, Palestinians can’t seem to understand that a withdrawl from Gaza is what they asked for. So it goes on.